Vojska i Namenska industrija Srbije
- Začetnik teme dragan
- Datum pokretanja
Bender Rodriguez
Professional
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Nikakvi kinezi indusi kad se radi o avionima.
Korejski FA-50 bi bila odlična stvar za nas ali su preskupi.
Protiv Suhoja nemam ništa ali mislim da nam zapad neće dati.
Gripen je vrhunska mašina ali takođe preskupa.
Rafali su isto preskupi za nas ali očigledno nam onaj glavati klovn to nameće. Ovaj zbog koga će da blokiraju raspale ulice sad u petak ili kad već.
Inače ne očekujem ni ja veći rat, ali se vodim logikom da ako već uzimamo nešto za najosnovnije potrebe, da bude nešto kvalitetno, a ne najjeftinije i najkljakavije.
Korejski FA-50 bi bila odlična stvar za nas ali su preskupi.
Protiv Suhoja nemam ništa ali mislim da nam zapad neće dati.
Gripen je vrhunska mašina ali takođe preskupa.
Rafali su isto preskupi za nas ali očigledno nam onaj glavati klovn to nameće. Ovaj zbog koga će da blokiraju raspale ulice sad u petak ili kad već.
Inače ne očekujem ni ja veći rat, ali se vodim logikom da ako već uzimamo nešto za najosnovnije potrebe, da bude nešto kvalitetno, a ne najjeftinije i najkljakavije.
Poslednja izmena:
Ne možeš da kupiš bilo šta, jer kupovina određenog aviona ima i političke konotacije. Taj korejski sigurni ima neki američki čip unutra i moraju da pitaju Ujka Sema da li smeju da ga prodaju nekome. Nije to ni bitno, jer niko neće ovde da kupuje pakistanski, indijski ili korejski avion.
Drugo je pitanje koliku razliku pravi to imamo li 5, 10 ili 20 aviona kada je sve to nedovoljno u bilo kakvom potencijalnom ratu. 90-ih nam je u Jadranu bila usidrena američka flota konstantno (beše se zvala 6. flota, nešto tako). Evo sada su oko Izraela dovukli nekoliko nosača, podmornica.
Na taj način se odnos snaga promeni za par nedelja i besmisleno je da se mi nadamo da imamo neke šanse u bilo kakvom sukobu. Svi su oko nas u NATO i ti nosači aviona bi branili njih, a svaki nosi stotinak aviona.
Naša jedina šansa je da sukob izbegnemo, a to možemo jedino politički, a ne zato što ćemo kupiti Rafale ili Chengu-kingu avione iz Kine ili šta već. Iskreno ne znam šta ćemo mi sa tih nekoliko Rafala, da kao patroliramo svojim nebom evetnualno i sl.
Pošto nama zapravo i ne treba borbeni avion, verovatno se ti Rafali kupuju zbog odnosa sa Francuskom. Zato otpadaju razni avioni sa AliExpress-a i mora baš taj.
Uglavnom, sukoba nema, niti će ga biti, tako da ne treba previše lupati glavu oko toga.
Drugo je pitanje koliku razliku pravi to imamo li 5, 10 ili 20 aviona kada je sve to nedovoljno u bilo kakvom potencijalnom ratu. 90-ih nam je u Jadranu bila usidrena američka flota konstantno (beše se zvala 6. flota, nešto tako). Evo sada su oko Izraela dovukli nekoliko nosača, podmornica.
Na taj način se odnos snaga promeni za par nedelja i besmisleno je da se mi nadamo da imamo neke šanse u bilo kakvom sukobu. Svi su oko nas u NATO i ti nosači aviona bi branili njih, a svaki nosi stotinak aviona.
Naša jedina šansa je da sukob izbegnemo, a to možemo jedino politički, a ne zato što ćemo kupiti Rafale ili Chengu-kingu avione iz Kine ili šta već. Iskreno ne znam šta ćemo mi sa tih nekoliko Rafala, da kao patroliramo svojim nebom evetnualno i sl.
Pošto nama zapravo i ne treba borbeni avion, verovatno se ti Rafali kupuju zbog odnosa sa Francuskom. Zato otpadaju razni avioni sa AliExpress-a i mora baš taj.
Uglavnom, sukoba nema, niti će ga biti, tako da ne treba previše lupati glavu oko toga.
Zion Williamson
Higher intermediate
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- 14.05.2019.
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Mogli smo naruciti 60 komata letecih kanti sa opremom i obukom za 3 milijarde.
(kazu da jedan kosta 50 miliona sa opremom i obukom)
Прле
Expert
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- 29.11.2018.
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- 6.440
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- 9.067
Дуров до хапшења никоме није да лозинке за шифорвање, тако да су сви канали телеграма оапсолутно били сигурни за размену информација, у том смислу и разних милитаната. СА је позната као финансијер разних екстремитичких група. Ако Дуров пропева, најмање што ће се укинути одлично место за размену инфомрација, а можда и доћи то слива неке инфомрације.
ГЕНЕРАЛ
Higher intermediate
- Učlanjen(a)
- 08.05.2022.
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- 765
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Ако посматрамо све капиталне набавке наоружања пре свега у РВиПВО онда можемо закључити да ће се поново балансирати. Биће опет набавке и са истока иако је то ноћна мора за техничаре и пилоте...знате кад би све што желимо могло било би сјајно али изгледа да је Рафал најмање лоша опција од свих расположивих. 12 нових рафала и вероватно 12 половних грчких миража пре тога...видећемо. Оно што нама треба је властити сателит и јачање ракетне артиљерије, остало је лепо али не мења ствари значајно.
Qaxentius
Intermediate
- Učlanjen(a)
- 31.03.2023.
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- 223
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- 402
Načuo sam (dakle nije provereno i zasigurno) da osim što otvoreno ne možemo nabavljati avione i prateću opremu za njih iz Rusije jer NATO ne dozvoljava prelet niti transport, imamo i eksplicitno upozorenje da bismo popili sankcije ako bismo ih skriveno nabavljali.
Kina je izuzetak za sada.
Bulbulderac17
Advanced
Koji čip to je avion faktički razvijen pod nadzorom Lockheed Martin-a. Izraelski radar, GE motori...faktički sve ono što ne smemo da nabavimo. Realnija opcija je čak i F16. Elem FA50 nije ni ista klasa aviona za poređenje sa Rafalom. KF21 bi bio odlična opcija al ni to nam ne bi dozvolili...
Kineze i Ruse stvarno ne treba više ni komentarisati... alternative su bile Gripen i preskupi EF koji bi nas tek zakopao jer ima najskuplji nalet.
Bender Rodriguez
Professional
- Učlanjen(a)
- 12.03.2017.
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Svakako, ima i toga. Zato još uvek čekamo Pancire i Milove koje smo odavno naručili.
NATO ili EU samo uvedu FT1P i skembaju nas samo tako. Ne moraju ni metak da ispale. A ljudi ovde maštaju o ratu sa njima...
Zanimljivo koliko se ruska vojska oslanja na "consumer" aplikacije i nema zapravo dovoljno razrađene "military grade" komunikacione kanale:
meduza.io
Telegram, Discord, Starlink...
Džabe im end-to-end enkripcija na Telegram-u (čak i da to stvarno funkcioniše), kada im komunikacija ide preko Starlink-a.
Time se sva ta vojska na frontu dovodi u veliku opasnost, što se uostalom i vidi svakog dana.
Telegram has become a key tool for the Russian military. Why does Moscow continue to rely on a Dubai-based civilian messaging app? — Meduza
Tech billionaire Pavel Durov’s arrest in France has reignited debate in Russia over the Telegram messenger app’s role in the war in Ukraine. The last round of discussion surrounding the issue came as recently as July, when the State Duma passed a law allowing new punishments for soldiers who use...
Telegram, Discord, Starlink...
Džabe im end-to-end enkripcija na Telegram-u (čak i da to stvarno funkcioniše), kada im komunikacija ide preko Starlink-a.
Time se sva ta vojska na frontu dovodi u veliku opasnost, što se uostalom i vidi svakog dana.
Пантограф
Professional
- Učlanjen(a)
- 23.04.2012.
- Poruke
- 21.377
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- 48.840
Ово је најоптимистичнија тврдња коју сам у животу прочитао...
Rafale fighter jets in Serbia: Details of a geostrategic contract
Although the Élysée press service remained very discreet about Emmanuelle Macron's visit to Belgrade on Thursday, August 29, the purpose of this official trip was in no way to discuss the Ukrainian conflict but rather to finalize the sale of 12 Rafale to the Serbian air force.
New Rafales to the F 4.1 standard
It was at the beginning of May that the Serbian government, fearing that its fleet of multi-role Mig-29s (11 in the SM version and 3 in the two-seater UB version) would be grounded due to a new series of sanctions against Moscow, validated the technical proposal submitted by Dassault, Thales and Safran, who supported it at the end of June, and in record time with a financial proposal. Seduced by the multi-role capabilities of the Rafale and especially its ability to maintain the sovereignty of the Serbian state, Belgrade, like many other Rafale customers, did not wish to initiate a call for tenders, but rather a "G to G" (Government to Government) agreement to place itself on an equal footing with neighboring Croatia.
But unlike previous export sales of the Rafale, these are not second-hand first-generation aircraft but new aircraft. Belgrade should thus acquire 12 Rafale to the F4 step 1 standard for an amount of 3 billion euros. That is a cost of 250 Meurs per aircraft. A sum that cannot be compared to previous contracts for the French combat aircraft due to several specificities.
Elbit Solutions
First of all, the aircraft will be delivered without weapons because Belgrade wants to keep the Russian missiles acquired for the Mig-29s of the 101st squadron of Batajnica, namely the R-27ER1 with a range of 100 km, the R-77E (80 km), the Kh-29T (30 km) and a whole collection of KAB-500 and 1500 bombs. However, to be able to fire them from the Rafale, Dassault turned to the Israeli Elbit whose networks have worked wonders in India. Because to allow the former Eastern bloc countries to make their air forces compatible with those of NATO, the Israeli industrialist produced two major innovations with Aerostar, as part of the market for the modernization of 110 Romanian Mig-21s in 1993: First of all, a universal bus allowing the Elbit sensors to be interfaced with any type of aircraft, and a pylon capable of carrying Russian and Western weapons.
This is not the first time that the Republic of Serbia has made an overture to Western arms manufacturers. As part of the contract to modernize its 17 twin-engine subsonic J-22 ORAO fighter-bombers, built from the 1970s with the Romanians, the Serbs have, since 2019, acquired the Safran Sigma 95 inertial system, and Raytheon AGM-65 air-to-ground missiles in addition to the Russian Vympel R-60 MK.
Thanks to the cooperation between Dassault and Elbit, the Serbs will therefore be able to use all of their weapons. In addition, if the Mig-29s are impressive in size, by choosing the Rafale the Serbs double their weapons carrying capacity. The French aircraft is in fact capable of delivering 9.5 T of missiles and bombs compared to 4 T for the Russian fighter. However, such an assembly is to the detriment of Thales, because for the weapons system to be coherent, Elbit also imposes (as in India) its laser designation pod and its DASH helmet sight.
A diplomatic weapon
But above all, through this acquisition, Belgrade becomes the true regional power of the Balkans. Because unlike Croatia or Greece, the Rafale's F4 standard is equipped not with an RBE-2 PESA radar but with a latest-generation RBE-2 AESA whose range, according to Thales, would be just as good as the F-35. But above all, it has SAR imaging capabilities for ground targets at a distance of more than 100 km. These aircraft will also carry the brand new version of the SPECTRA electronic warfare system capable of thwarting all the new waveforms from sensors and new-generation weapons systems, whether Russian, Chinese or American.
However, the CIEEMG commission did not wish to authorize Thales to export the new AI capabilities of the F4 standard which make it possible to reduce the cognitive load of pilots during missions by automatically recognizing targets and proposing response options adapted to each tactical situation.
This file has not been without its difficulties since voices within the DGA or the EMA have expressed their fears in terms of technological leaks. Because the shady links that unite Moscow to the Republic of Serbia in Bosnia could indeed allow the Russians to analyze in detail the stealth characteristics of a standard that equips the nuclear Air Force, the waveforms in combat mode of the RBE-2 or Spectra, but also to study in detail their secondary lobes to be able to neutralize them by means of offensive electronic warfare. But the manufacturers wanted to be totally reassuring about these risks of compromise, but above all according to our information the Élysée would have conditioned this contract on an unequivocal security and intelligence agreement.
In short, through this contract, France is not only making a new commercial coup with the Rafale, it is demonstrating that its defense industry can also be at the service of its diplomacy, if not its influence. The Rafale will not only allow Greece, Croatia and Serbia to federate their maintenance or training chains. Above all, it will contribute to neutralizing any risk of a new conflict in the heart of Europe, while Moscow is currently fanning the flames of divergences between the different political entities of the former Yugoslavia, by definitively rallying Serbia to the Western camp, thanks to the historical ties that have linked it to Belgrade since the 19th century.
Ima nekih nelogicnosti, videcemo detalje. Prilično skupo, 2,7 milijardi za 12 aviona, znaci oko 225 miliona po komadu.
Although the Élysée press service remained very discreet about Emmanuelle Macron's visit to Belgrade on Thursday, August 29, the purpose of this official trip was in no way to discuss the Ukrainian conflict but rather to finalize the sale of 12 Rafale to the Serbian air force.
New Rafales to the F 4.1 standard
It was at the beginning of May that the Serbian government, fearing that its fleet of multi-role Mig-29s (11 in the SM version and 3 in the two-seater UB version) would be grounded due to a new series of sanctions against Moscow, validated the technical proposal submitted by Dassault, Thales and Safran, who supported it at the end of June, and in record time with a financial proposal. Seduced by the multi-role capabilities of the Rafale and especially its ability to maintain the sovereignty of the Serbian state, Belgrade, like many other Rafale customers, did not wish to initiate a call for tenders, but rather a "G to G" (Government to Government) agreement to place itself on an equal footing with neighboring Croatia.
But unlike previous export sales of the Rafale, these are not second-hand first-generation aircraft but new aircraft. Belgrade should thus acquire 12 Rafale to the F4 step 1 standard for an amount of 3 billion euros. That is a cost of 250 Meurs per aircraft. A sum that cannot be compared to previous contracts for the French combat aircraft due to several specificities.
Elbit Solutions
First of all, the aircraft will be delivered without weapons because Belgrade wants to keep the Russian missiles acquired for the Mig-29s of the 101st squadron of Batajnica, namely the R-27ER1 with a range of 100 km, the R-77E (80 km), the Kh-29T (30 km) and a whole collection of KAB-500 and 1500 bombs. However, to be able to fire them from the Rafale, Dassault turned to the Israeli Elbit whose networks have worked wonders in India. Because to allow the former Eastern bloc countries to make their air forces compatible with those of NATO, the Israeli industrialist produced two major innovations with Aerostar, as part of the market for the modernization of 110 Romanian Mig-21s in 1993: First of all, a universal bus allowing the Elbit sensors to be interfaced with any type of aircraft, and a pylon capable of carrying Russian and Western weapons.
This is not the first time that the Republic of Serbia has made an overture to Western arms manufacturers. As part of the contract to modernize its 17 twin-engine subsonic J-22 ORAO fighter-bombers, built from the 1970s with the Romanians, the Serbs have, since 2019, acquired the Safran Sigma 95 inertial system, and Raytheon AGM-65 air-to-ground missiles in addition to the Russian Vympel R-60 MK.
Thanks to the cooperation between Dassault and Elbit, the Serbs will therefore be able to use all of their weapons. In addition, if the Mig-29s are impressive in size, by choosing the Rafale the Serbs double their weapons carrying capacity. The French aircraft is in fact capable of delivering 9.5 T of missiles and bombs compared to 4 T for the Russian fighter. However, such an assembly is to the detriment of Thales, because for the weapons system to be coherent, Elbit also imposes (as in India) its laser designation pod and its DASH helmet sight.
A diplomatic weapon
But above all, through this acquisition, Belgrade becomes the true regional power of the Balkans. Because unlike Croatia or Greece, the Rafale's F4 standard is equipped not with an RBE-2 PESA radar but with a latest-generation RBE-2 AESA whose range, according to Thales, would be just as good as the F-35. But above all, it has SAR imaging capabilities for ground targets at a distance of more than 100 km. These aircraft will also carry the brand new version of the SPECTRA electronic warfare system capable of thwarting all the new waveforms from sensors and new-generation weapons systems, whether Russian, Chinese or American.
However, the CIEEMG commission did not wish to authorize Thales to export the new AI capabilities of the F4 standard which make it possible to reduce the cognitive load of pilots during missions by automatically recognizing targets and proposing response options adapted to each tactical situation.
This file has not been without its difficulties since voices within the DGA or the EMA have expressed their fears in terms of technological leaks. Because the shady links that unite Moscow to the Republic of Serbia in Bosnia could indeed allow the Russians to analyze in detail the stealth characteristics of a standard that equips the nuclear Air Force, the waveforms in combat mode of the RBE-2 or Spectra, but also to study in detail their secondary lobes to be able to neutralize them by means of offensive electronic warfare. But the manufacturers wanted to be totally reassuring about these risks of compromise, but above all according to our information the Élysée would have conditioned this contract on an unequivocal security and intelligence agreement.
In short, through this contract, France is not only making a new commercial coup with the Rafale, it is demonstrating that its defense industry can also be at the service of its diplomacy, if not its influence. The Rafale will not only allow Greece, Croatia and Serbia to federate their maintenance or training chains. Above all, it will contribute to neutralizing any risk of a new conflict in the heart of Europe, while Moscow is currently fanning the flames of divergences between the different political entities of the former Yugoslavia, by definitively rallying Serbia to the Western camp, thanks to the historical ties that have linked it to Belgrade since the 19th century.
Ima nekih nelogicnosti, videcemo detalje. Prilično skupo, 2,7 milijardi za 12 aviona, znaci oko 225 miliona po komadu.
Bulbulderac17
Advanced
Ovaj članak je sa MyCityja i ubrzo je povučen...jer su videli koliko su stvari nalupetali...svakako je kupljeno i naoružanje o ovome se pregovaralo kao opciji.
ГЕНЕРАЛ
Higher intermediate
- Učlanjen(a)
- 08.05.2022.
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[POSLEDNJA VEST] Daso će Srbiji isporučiti prvi Rafal 2028. godine - Tango Six
Generalni direktor kompanije Daso je u izjavi francuskim medijima pred početak ceremonijalne razmene ugovora otkrio i precizan rok za isporuku...
StariPosmatrač
Higher intermediate
- Učlanjen(a)
- 19.09.2018.
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Ovo sa prilagođavanjem naoružanja nije ništa novo. Tako ukrajinski migovi koriste storm shadow projektile.
