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Unutrašnji Magistralni Poluprsten, Most preko Ade - [Magistrala]

Goje,Pa ako ti smeta ti promeni temu.šta bi sada da drugima određuješ o čemu će svi ostali da raspravljaju..??
Gorstak,sve ok :) To što navedeno nema stanica NBG i ostale moraće da se uvede kada se bude rekonstruisala ili gradila kao i sve stanice BGvoza nove i stare.Tako su i Moskva i Budimpešta morali da uvedu liftove za invalide u sve metro stanice nove i koje se rekonstruišu evropski propisi u gradnji stanica su opšte dostupni,možeš ih dobiti od Cip-a,ŽS.a videće se prilikom gradnje pruge i stanica prema Pančevu,Prokopa itd.Na ovoj stanici dodatni su propisi je se nalazi na visini 22 m,i nalazi su sastavu većeg objekta,nije na poljani.
 
- Prvo pitanje, odakle ti podatak da nije radjeno u skladu sa 'obaveznim evropskim standardima' ?
- Ne razumem spominjanje evakuacionog plana i protvpozarnog projekta? Jesili ih pregledao pa imas neke zamerke?
- Sistem za dojavu pozara, ventilaciju i odimljavanje se instalira u zatvorenim prostorima.
- Ne razumem sponjinjanje vestibila (ulaznog hola), sluzbe za odrzavanje i bezbednost stanice za tramvajsku stanicu? Kad se, i ako se uopste, uvede metro linija 3, bitno postavljanje usmerivaca za kontrolu ulaza i to se postize postavljenjim automtskih sistema kao na Glavnoj autobuskoj stanici. Nisam siguran, ali mislim da nisu potrebne sluzbe za odrzavanje i bezbednost na svakoj metro stanici, mada prema ovoj vizuelizaciji ima dovoljno prostora i one da se uvedu kad bude potrebe za tim
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- Ako smatras da sve ovo mora da ima na svakoj stanici, da li isto smatras da mora da ima i na svakoj stanici gradske zeleznice? Da li onda smatras, po istoj logici, da funkcionisanje sadasnje gradske zeleznice ugrozava bezbednost putnika?
- Pristup invalidima je omogucen liftovima, kako stanici za sinski sistem, tako i za autobuska stajalista. Inace ne moras da zoves CIP da ih pitas za dostupnost, imas pravilnik o tehnickim standardima pristupacnosti kojeg moraju svi da se pridrzavaju.
-Sirinu i duzinu platformi ne znam, slika bas tog dela je mnogo mutna pa se ne vidi. Pretpostavljam da ima sirinu od 3.5m sto je dovoljno, a duzina se odredjuje prema duzini kompozicijie.
 
blagoje":1lfdg9ex je napisao(la):
Da nema liftova, verovatno bih se složio. Reći ćeš: "A šta ako liftovi ne rade?" Ja ti uzvraćam pitanjem: "A šta ako ne rade pokretne stepenice na stanici Vukov spomenik?" Da li neko to vidi kao veliki problem?

Не,рећићу да су два лифта довољна за аутобуску станицу у Бољевцима или тако негде а не за трамвјаксу станицу на "капиталном и приоритетном" саобраћајном правцу а камоли за неку станицу која би хтела да једног дана буде метро. Станица вуков споменик не би ни радила када би покретне степенице биле у квару.

Ко нађе једну станицу било каквог шинског система изграђену у последњих 30 година у свету а да има степенишни приступ на висини од 22метра добија гајбу пива од мене.
 
Milanche,ova stanica je na visini od 22.m i nalazi se "u objektu"većem,a nema veze što nije podzemna stanica,isto se tretira kada je u objektu,ova pravila važe za sve nove stanice i nove rekonstrukcije postojećih, a ne one koje su trenutno u upotrebi,pre ili kasnije sve će se morati rekonstruisati ili jedna po jedna prema planu na osnovu eu standarda.Kolko se sećam prvi render je bio sa vestibilom pored stepenica,šta bi sa tim renderom?A ovo za protivpožarno i evakuaciju je uslov svih uslova. :kafa:
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Evo ti domaćeg priloga izdignuta stanica na Nbg
 
Radovi na biciklističkoj stazi ispod mosta (pošto je još uvek "u izgradnji" nisam stavio u temu "Biciklističke staze")

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Betonski šathovi ukazuju na visinu staze
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Inače, danas mi je prvi put, za sve ove godine, prišao čuvar i rekao da fotografisanje nije dozvoljeno (?!)
Malo smo se raspravljali (ali krajnje pristojno), rekao sam mu da nigde ne piše da je zabranjeno, da razmem da mu je to neko rekao i da on samo radi svoj posao ali da taj koji mu je to rekao nije u pravu, i da je sve ovo ipak "naše", jer svi mi na kraju krajeva plaćamo ovu izgradnju, ništa ovde nije ni privatrno ni poverljivo. Na kraju smo se kulturno pozdravili.
Čudno.
 
Neko je polomio mlada drveća na savslom keju. Preko 20 stabala koje 3 godine svakog leta radnici zelenila preko leta svaki dan zalivaju.

Ako je neko zamislio da ova dva lifta funkcionišu moraće da zaposli dva liftboja po smeni 7 dana u nedelji. Cirka 8 ljudi, ili možda bolje resenje da grad unajmi ljude iz firmi poput g4s ili stracon da obezbede liftboje. Oni su koštali oko 200 dinara po satu. Ako stanica radi 06-24 to će na dnevnom nivou biti oko 6400 dinara za dva liftboja.

A na potezu 300 grad neće da se otvori za dva kvadratna metra betona da ljudi ne stoje u blatu. O nadstrešnicama da ne govorim.



Послато са GT-N7100 користећи Тапаток 2
 
2012":18rr9j27 je napisao(la):
Milanche,ova stanica je na visini od 22.m i nalazi se "u objektu"većem,a nema veze što nije podzemna stanica,isto se tretira kada je u objektu,ova pravila važe za sve nove stanice i nove rekonstrukcije postojećih, a ne one koje su trenutno u upotrebi,pre ili kasnije sve će se morati rekonstruisati ili jedna po jedna prema planu na osnovu eu standarda.Kolko se sećam prvi render je bio sa vestibilom pored stepenica,šta bi sa tim renderom?A ovo za protivpožarno i evakuaciju je uslov svih uslova. :kafa:
Ja zaista ne znam sto si se uhvatio protivpozarnosti, kad jednostavno to ne pije vodu. Prvo, za protivpozarce jeste bitna visina objekta, tj da li spada u kategoriju visokih objekata ili ne, ali od kote pristupa vatrogasnog vozila! U ovom slucaju sa obe uzduzne strane stanice se nalaze po dve saobracajne trake odakle moze da se vrsi intervencija, pa cak i evakuacija povredjenih u slucaju teze nezgode. Pritom ovo nije zatvoreno, gde ima opasnosti od gusenja dimom. Nemoj da budes jednostran. U svakom slucaju bezbednija je ova stanica od recimo zel.st Novi Beograd, Tosin Bunar,gde pristup vatrogasnim vozilima nije u istom nvou, a da ne govorim o tunelu izmedju Tosinog bunara i Zemuna. Kad smo vec kod toga, ne rece mi, da li po tvojim kriterijumima koje zastupas u ovom slucaju, funkcionisanje sadasnje gradske zeleznice ugozava bezbednost putnika? :wink:

MilisaV":18rr9j27 je napisao(la):
Neko je polomio mlada drveća na savslom keju. Preko 20 stabala koje 3 godine svakog leta radnici zelenila preko leta svaki dan zalivaju.
Ovo govori o stanju naseg drustva.
 
Ne znam kakva to protivpožarna zaštita treba da postoji na otvorenom prostoru a celokupna konstrukcija je od betona ... šta to treba da gori? Beton?
 
Jedno što može da izazove požar je saobraćajna nesreća, a tom slučaju je saobraćaj već zaustavljen, pa bi svi pešaci i putnici koristili "alternativne pravce": kolovoz, sve moguće rampe za vozila, šinski koridor, stepenice na špicu, stepenice kod biciklističke staze...

Ipak se radi o otvorenom prostoru, pa je za grupu ljudi veća opasnost u slučaju atomskog udara (obe vrste: i s' leva, a i s'desna) nego od vatrene stihije zapaljenog tramvaja ili prevrnute cisterne sa gorivom koja spektakularno eksplodira kako samo Holivud to može da dočara.
 
stf":26iqdy4i je napisao(la):
Ne znam kakva to protivpožarna zaštita treba da postoji na otvorenom prostoru a celokupna konstrukcija je od betona ... šta to treba da gori? Beton?
Ah pa ti onda nisi upoznat sa propisima u gradjevinarstvu,protivpozarna policija i dobijanje njene saglasnosti na projekta je najteza dozovola koju mozes dobiti i cekas je u proseku godinu dana,svaki detalj pretresaju u vezi projekta i ako samo neki minimum uslovima fali ne mozes dobiti gradjevinsku dozvolu.
Ovaj objekat ovako kako je projektovan i izveden,skeptik sam da ce dobiti dozvolu jer nije radjen po evropskim propisima pre svega bezbednosti putnika i korisnika.Neko treba da stvi potpis iza toga. :dil:
Relja ne radi se o otvorenom prostoru vec o stanici unutar objekta ,kako se i slizbeno tretira.
 
2012":1j6s7kfs je napisao(la):
Ovaj objekat ovako kako je projektovan i izveden,skeptik sam da ce dobiti dozvolu jer nije radjen po evropskim propisima pre svega bezbednosti putnika i korisnika.Neko treba da stvi potpis iza toga. :dil:

Mi smo balkan, kod nas se koristi rakija umesto potpisa. :p
 
Milsim da balkan sa tim nema veze,Mi smo za vreme bivse yu morali da postujemo sve propise po tada vazecim svetskim standardima ,sada bi to moralo da je na jos visem nivou jer su standardi podignut,odgovornost za bezbednost ljudi je najveca i sa tim nema igranja,znam da smo sada u projektantskoj kuci i nadzoru digli veliku frku,i da sada ce morati da menjaju projekat i dograde sve sto smo naveli.U svakom slucaju morace mnogo toga da objasnjavaju,rakija tu ne pomaze. :kafa:
 
Ma sve će objasniti, kao što su objasnili za TC Stadion ...
 
Mislim da smo vodili dobru i kvalitetnu raspravu,ako urodi plodom i nesto se promeni nismo gubili vreme uzalud,gradjani su na dobitku :kafa:
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@2012 gde možemo pogledati i upoznati se sa tim propisima? Pretpostavljam da nisu tajni?
 
Blago nama što sagradismo kompletnu metro liniju sa sve stanicama, pa nam je sada protivpožarna zaštita na jednoj od stanica jedini preostali problem. :grand:
 
@2012
Iz cele ove diskusije, zaključio sam da je jedino rešenje da se što pre sruši cela petlja i da se krene iz početka. Drugog rešenja nema. Svima nam je ugrožena bezbednost. Svakodnevno tuda prolazim, a ni slutio nisam da sam toliko ugrožen. 2012, ako bi mogao da pokreneš peticiju za rušenje, ja ću svakako prvi potpisati. Hvala ti, spasao si mi život. Šta život? Živote!
 
Ovo gore je kao stvoreno za scenu treninga Rokija za sledeći nastavak filma ... uz prepoznatljivu muzičku numeru. :)
 
2012":jv4u6ili je napisao(la):

Tragikomicno i nevidjeno. Devet setova (deset?) od po dvadeset stepenika! Ko ce tu uopste da prolazi?
Tako je moralo :roll:
 
Kada se u praksi bude pokazalo koliko putnika koristi te stanice, i ako se pokaže da liftovi nisu dovoljni ili nisu praktični, ugradiće se pokretne stepenice i problem, ukoliko postoji, će biti rešen, zar ne?
 
Referentne ustanove koje ce vam dati sluzbene uslove su inzinjerska komora Srbije,Zeleznice Srbije,Cip.
Ali pre njih a ova pitanja bi pre svega trebalo postaviti projektantima ove stanice,koje su to oni standarde primenili i da li su uopste :kafa:

Railway Station Design
Introduction


Contents
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Background - Station and Crossing Safety - Platforms - Platform Screens and Doors - Entrances and Exits - Passenger Information - Toilets - Concessions - Station Design - Side Platform Station - Island Platform Station - Elevated Station with Side Platforms - Elevated Station with Ticket Hall Below Platforms - Lifts and Escalators.
Background

klstn.jpg (97100 bytes) Stations are the places where trains stop to collect and deposit passengers. Since the station is the first point of contact most passengers have with the railway, it should be regarded as the "shop window" for the services provided. It should therefore be well designed, pleasing to the eye (photo left), comfortable and convenient for the passenger as well as efficient in layout and operation. Stations must be properly managed and maintained and must be operated safely.
Station and Crossing Safety

There are two differing views about passenger safety at stations which have dictated station design for the last 150 years or more. For most of the world, it has been assumed that passengers (and other members of the public) will take care of their own safety when walking on or near a railway. Because of this, it is not considered necessary to segregate passengers from trains. Passengers will look out for passing trains when crossing tracks and will take care not to leave luggage, children, cars or anything else which could damage or be damaged by a train. Station design has reflected this so that platforms were often not raised very much above rail level. Passengers were forced to climb up to trains, usually with the help of a plentiful staff and portable steps carried on vehicles. Passengers were free to wander across tracks, usually at walkways specially provided for them and any road vehicles which needed to cross the line. Railways were not fenced. Only at terminals and very busy stations was any attempt at segregation made.

In the UK, railways were always fenced and passengers and the public were invariably kept away from the tracks as far as possible. Platforms were built to a level which allowed a reasonable step up into a train without help and bridges or underground passages (called "subways" in the UK) were provided to allow people to cross the line unhindered by the movement of trains. The high platform also permitted quicker loading and inloading of trains.


It is a feature of station design in the UK and railways designed to UK standards, that platforms are built to the height of the train floor, or close to it. This is now also adopted as standard on metro railways throughout the world. The rest of the world has generally had a train/station interface designed on the basis that the passengers step up into the train from a low level platform or even straight off the ground. To this end, passenger vehicles were usually designed with end entrances, having the floor narrower then the rest of the car body so that a set of steps could be fitted to either side of the entrance gangway. However, high platforms are now seen in many countries around the world.

Shanghai Stadium U-D Stn.jpg (61876 bytes) Platform width is also an important feature of station design. The width must be sufficient to accommodate the largest numbers of passengers expected but must not be wasteful of space - always at a premium for station areas in expensive land districts of a city. The platform should be designed to give free visual areas along its length so that passengers can read signs and staff can ensure safety when dispatching trains. Columns supporting structures (photo) can often seriously affect the operation of a station by reducing circulating areas and passenger flows at busy times. Platform edges should be straight to assist operations by allowing clear sight lines.
Platform Screens and Doors

PSDs-JLE.jpg (46322 bytes)There has been a trend recently in modern metro systems towards incorporating glazed screens along platform edges (photo left). This is only possible where sliding powered doors are available on trains and where the location of these doors is always consistent, which is why screen doors do not appear on main line railways. There are a number of interesting points to remember when considering platform screen doors.

Platform screen doors (sometimes called "platform edge doors") were first introduced in St Petersburg (then Leningrad) on the metro to reduce heat losses on station platforms of underground stations. They were also fitted to the Lille VAL driverless system but, in this case, as a way of preventing passengers from getting onto the line where there were no drivers to stop the train. It too allowed a better degree of climate control within stations. Climate control was also the reason why doors were introduced for underground stations in Singapore when its metro system was started in 1989.

On most lines equipped with platform screen doors, the space between the sliding doors has emergency doors that can be pushed open onto the platform, so if the train stops out of position, there is still emergency access to the platform. There are also local station door controls provided at the platform ends , in case the automatic system fails.

London Underground has introduced doors on the underground platforms of its new Jubilee Line extension. These are more for safety reasons, since the suicide rate in London has gone as high as 150 attempts in some years. At somewhere around USD 1.5 million a platform, these doors are not cheap but the savings in passenger time due to prevention of delays quickly justifies the expense on a socio-economic level, even if you choose to ignore the savings in human life. Here is a photo of the doors at the new Canary Wharf station (Jubilee Line) in London. Click on the image for the full size view.

Against the provision of platform doors must be the cost of maintenance. Train doors account for more than half the rolling stock failures of most metro and suburban railways and the same sort of designs are used for platform doors. Any system which uses such doors must ensure that adequate provision for maintenance is made and that any savings in heating or ventilation costs is not outweighed by failures.

In Lyons, France, the MAGGALY driverless automatic metro Line D has no platform screen doors. Instead the platfrom track areas are equipped with a network of electronic detector beams which trigger the train stop commands if a beam is broken. When it was first installed, there were so many false alarms that now, an alarm to the control centre allows the operating staff to observe the area through CCTV before confirming the stop command.
Entrances and Exits

Doncaster Booking Hall.jpg (56713 bytes) Station entrances and exits must be designed to allow for the numbers of passengers passing through them, both under normal and emergency conditions. Specific emergency exit requirements are outlined in many countries as part of safety legislation or to standards set down by the railways or other organisations. The codes in NFPA 130 (the US standard for their transit industry) are one such instance. These codes usually define the exit flows and the types of exits allowed for, e.g. the different rates for passages, stairways and escalators.

Whatever the codes define, the entrances to a station must be welcoming to the prospective passenger. Stations must also have sufficient entrances to cater for the different sides of the railway route but the number must also take into account the cost effectiveness of each entrance. The cost of staffing ticket offices can be very considerable and the numbers of ticket offices must be managed to suit the patronage offering.

Consideration must be paid to issues like which way doors open. On the Paris Metro in 1918, a crown panicked near Bolivar station during an air raid on the city and 66 people were killed in a crush trying to get into the station for shelter. The obstacle that triggered the crush was a set of doors that only opened outwards -- normally the right direction for safety, but not when the crowd is trying to rush in! Subsequently it became Metro policy that all doors had to open both ways.
Passenger Information

Click for full size Information systems (photo left) on stations are variously referred to as a Passenger Information System (sometimes referred to as PIS) or Passenger Information Display (PID). Professional railway staff often refer to them as Train Describers. Whatever it is called, there must be a reliable way of informing the passengers where the trains are going. Passenger information systems are essential for any railway. One of the most common complaints by passengers on railways is the lack of up to date and accurate information. When asking the staff for information, passengers expect an accurate and courteous response with the latest data. There is nothing worse than the "your guess is as good as mine" response when a member of staff is asked what is happening when a train is delayed or has not appeared on time. This means that staff must have access to the latest information and they must be trained to use it properly and to pass it on to passengers.

Information displays mounted in public areas must be visible in all weather conditions (noting that some electronic displays are very difficult to see in sunlight conditions) and be updated regularly with accurate information. There are two types of information - constant and instant. Constant information can be described as that which describes the services and fares available and which changes only a few times a year or less. This information can be displayed on posters and fixed notices. There also might be special offers which can be posted from time to time. Instant information is that which changes daily or minute by minute. This is better displayed electronically or mechanically - both systems can be seen around the world.

For instant systems, it can be assumed that passengers require to know:

The time now

The destination and expected time of arrival of the next train

The stations served by this train

Major connections requiring boarding of this train

The position of their car - if travelling with a reserved place

Where the train will stop - for variable length trains

Other destinations served from this station and from which platform

A good example of passenger information displays can be seen on some Paris (France) RER stations. A large illuminated board is hung over the platform and all the stations served by the train approaching are shown by lamps lit next to the station name. The time now and the train length is also shown. Although the system is not now modern, it is very effective.
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Ovo su samo neki od gradjevinskih uslova za gradnju stanica..ima ih toliko da ne bi satalo ni na dve stranice..
 
Vrh