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Epidemija CoViD-19

Da li ćete se vakcinisati i kojom vakcinom?

  • Da - Sinopharm

    Glasovi: 32 10,1%
  • Da - Sputnik V

    Glasovi: 25 7,9%
  • Da - Pfizer-BioNTech

    Glasovi: 81 25,6%
  • Da - bilo kojom dostupnom vakcinom

    Glasovi: 49 15,5%
  • Da - AstraZeneca

    Glasovi: 23 7,3%
  • Da - Moderna

    Glasovi: 2 0,6%
  • Nisam siguran sačekaću još

    Glasovi: 44 13,9%
  • Ne želim da se vakcinišem

    Glasovi: 60 19,0%

  • Ukupno glasača
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Pa ti skrati i budi jasniji.

Ali nema veze, nije bitno, zato sto s tobom prosto ne vredi razgovarati. Ti ne priznajes podatke Forbsove liste i UNa, tako da nema poente tebi ista objasnjavati

Ja samo volim da povremeno istaknem besmislice u tvojim postovima. Pogotovu kad si sam sebi kontradiktoran.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869170#p869170:3bhxkka7 je napisao(la):
Пантограф » 27 minutes ago[/url]":3bhxkka7]JOŠ MALO PA GOTOVO?
Virolozi koji su širili pesimizam sada tvrde da je kraj agonije jako blizu: ‘Covid je u kavezu!‘


Broj oboljelih od covida-19 u Velikoj Britanija pada, sve je bliži imunitetu zajednice, a čak i najpesimističniji epidemiolozi vjeruju da je najgore od pandemije iza nas, piše The Sunday Times.

https://www.jutarnji.hr/life/znanos...agonije-jako-blizu-covid-je-u-kavezu-15092634

Antivakseri tvrde da je kraj na vidiku zato što su vladari iz senke uvideli da ne može da prođe njihova agenda.

Zaista mi je žao što slušam takve i slične stvari od bliske osobe :(
 
Dok pricaju u korist Kurona rajha, onda su strucnjaci.

Kad pocnu da pricaju bilo sta drugo, odjednom bivaju proglaseni za antivaksere i teoreticare zavera.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869175#p869175:3ghqcmmp je napisao(la):
Bender Rodriguez » 03 Aug 2021 02:55 pm[/url]":3ghqcmmp]Pa ti skrati i budi jasniji.

Ali nema veze, nije bitno, zato sto s tobom prosto ne vredi razgovarati. Ti ne priznajes podatke Forbsove liste i UNa, tako da nema poente tebi ista objasnjavati

Ja samo volim da povremeno istaknem besmislice u tvojim postovima. Pogotovu kad si sam sebi kontradiktoran.
Ne postoje nikakve besmislice i kontardiktornosti, niti je ono što pišem previše komplikovano za sve koji se iole trude da prate. Ako je zdravstvena firma prisiljena da posluje kao svaki drugi biznis, dakle na slobodnom tržištu gde se uspeh ceni samo profitom, onda je logično, pa obično čak i nužno da će se truditi da koristi svaku legalnu prliku koja se pojavi da bi zaradili. Na to ih tera sam sistem. Dakle TADA zaista žele da zarade na koroni.

Međutim domaći i strani ljubitelji teorija zavera tvrde da je neko IZMISLIO da je korona mnogo opasnija nego što stvarno jeste, i da su zato te osobe namerno (nekako) naredile čitavom svetu da svuda uvodi drastične i sasvim nepotrebne mere suzijanja virusa, samo zato da bi još dodatno zaradili i na taj način. Pošto nema čak ni indicija da je tako nešto uopšte moguće globalno izvesti već i samo na organizacionom planu, onda je zaključak da firme ne zarađuju I NA TAJ NAČIN. Na onaj prvi da, a na ovaj drugi ne, jer je to praktično nemoguće globalno izvesti (a vidimo da je pristup represivnih mera sve do dovoljnog stepena vakcisanih ipak globalno usvojen).

Dakle, kad se misli na ono prvo, farmaceutske firme zarađuju, kad se misli na drugo, ne zarađuju. Šta tu može biti teško da se razume za bilo koga ko prati kontekst svake tvrdnje, tj čita sve što je napisano? NEMOGUĆE je dalje pojednostavljivati priču, pošto onda ne bi ostalo ništa. To onda više ne bi imalo nikakve veze sa realnošću.
 
Ima i indicija i dokaza i podataka koji to pokazuju. Drugo je sad to sto ti zivis u svom svetu pa ih ne priznajes.


Inace, sta bi s onim tvojim 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128... ? Evo vec tri nedelje otkako je Indijski soj usao u Srbiju a i dalje smo zivi... :o
 
Pošto ti voliš kratko, to je bila kratka ilustracija koliko brzo MOŽE da raste eksponencijalna funkcija. Koliko će brzo stvarno da raste, zavisi od stvarnih koeficjenata koje još niko ne zna. Još nije ni jesen ni zima, pa nas leto još uvek štiti koliko može. Videćemo što će biti na zimu. I ne, poslednja rečenica NE znači da sam bilo sada bilo ranije rekao da "nećemo ostati živi" što proizilazi iz tvoje poruke. Ne mogu da kažem kolike će stvarno biti posledice novih talasa pošto to niko ne zna, ali mogu da kažem da postoji potencijal i loše iskustvo sa ovim virusom, što sam spomenuo kao objašnjenje zbog čega su svi i dalje oprezni i zašto već sada uvode razne mere suzbijanja virusa i pospešivanja vakcinacije. Dakle nikakva zavera, samo loše iskustvo i menadžment rizika u situaciji u kojoj su mere efikasne i "jeftine" samo ako se preduzimaju dovoljno rano, dok još moramo pogađati šta će biti. Jer kad jednom budemo sigurno znali, onda je kasno za efikasno i jeftino reagovanje.
 
Hej, na ovoj temi se reci redovno izvrcu i pogresno tumace. Sta da ti kazem, navikni se na to... Sam si doprineo takvoj atmosferi.

Nego, a dokle ti i tvoja crkva mislite da se zivi ovako, koliko jos godina treba da prodje pre nego sto vi usvojite da je Korona za populacije bezopasnija od gripa i da histerisanje oko nje ne donosi nista dobro a visestruku stetu

Koliko puta treba da se podigne frka i da se nista ne desi da bi smo se svi slozili da od toga nema nista? Koliko talasa, koliko sojeva... ?
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869179#p869179:e37vll8u je napisao(la):
astrodule » 03 Aug 2021 03:11 pm[/url]":e37vll8u]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869170#p869170:e37vll8u je napisao(la):
Пантограф » 27 minutes ago[/url]":e37vll8u]JOŠ MALO PA GOTOVO?
Virolozi koji su širili pesimizam sada tvrde da je kraj agonije jako blizu: ‘Covid je u kavezu!‘


Broj oboljelih od covida-19 u Velikoj Britanija pada, sve je bliži imunitetu zajednice, a čak i najpesimističniji epidemiolozi vjeruju da je najgore od pandemije iza nas, piše The Sunday Times.

https://www.jutarnji.hr/life/znanos...agonije-jako-blizu-covid-je-u-kavezu-15092634

Antivakseri tvrde da je kraj na vidiku zato što su vladari iz senke uvideli da ne može da prođe njihova agenda.

Zaista mi je žao što slušam takve i slične stvari od bliske osobe :(
Koji antivakseri? Pročita li ovo? Na prilično jasan i zanimljiv način opisano kako neka epidemija utihne.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869203#p869203:5988lmr1 je napisao(la):
Bender Rodriguez » 03 Aug 2021 05:05 pm[/url]":5988lmr1]
Nego, a dokle ti i tvoja crkva mislite da se zivi ovako, koliko jos godina treba da prodje pre nego sto vi usvojite da je Korona za populacije bezopasnija od gripa i da histerisanje oko nje ne donosi nista dobro a visestruku stetu

Koliko puta treba da se podigne frka i da se nista ne desi da bi smo se svi slozili da od toga nema nista? Koliko talasa, koliko sojeva... ?
Korona NIJE bila bezopasnija od gripa, i tu nema šta da se debatuje i usvaja jer je emirijskim podacima iz bolnica dokazano ogroman broj puta.

Kakva će biti situacija sa Delta sojom ostaje da se vidi. Možda je ovaj soj postao blaži (mada više nailazim na tvrdnje da je ili isti ili gori), ali se tu sada pojavio ogroman problem sa procenama jer je postalo veoma teško odvojiti efekte delimične vakcinacije u raznim zemljama od efekata zbog karakteristika samog soja. Pa su sada i podaci o proširenosti virusa u nekoj državi postali neinformativni budući da ne znamo koji je od više mogućih faktora uticao da oni budu baš takvi. Drugim rečima, iskustvo jedne zemlje više nije prenosivo na drugu jer ne znamo šta je sve formiralo takav rezultat kod njih, a pogotovo šta bi bilo kod nas.

Daily coronavirus infections are suddenly dropping in the UK, but not all is as it seems
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-31/ ... /100336338

Something strange is happening in Britain. Covid cases are plummeting instead of soaring.
https://archive.ph/T7zk2
 
Batajnica se polako puni, za par dana vise je bilo prijema nego ceo prosli mesec. Na kraju krajeva treba pratiti hospitalizovane, to bas i ne moze da se steluje kao ostale cifre. Mislim da treba izvuci broj vakconisanih fajzerom i ruskom plus broj obolelih najkasnije od marta do danas to je ta neka cifra ljiudi sa opipljivim imunitetom. Sve ostalo je debela zabluda. Eto vec su poceli slucajevi onih koji su prelezali u decembru koronu da se opet zarazavaju.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869210#p869210:11kursix je napisao(la):
Пантограф » Today, 18:57[/url]":11kursix]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869179#p869179:11kursix je napisao(la):
astrodule » 03 Aug 2021 03:11 pm[/url]":11kursix]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869170#p869170:11kursix je napisao(la):
Пантограф » 27 minutes ago[/url]":11kursix]JOŠ MALO PA GOTOVO?
Virolozi koji su širili pesimizam sada tvrde da je kraj agonije jako blizu: ‘Covid je u kavezu!‘


Broj oboljelih od covida-19 u Velikoj Britanija pada, sve je bliži imunitetu zajednice, a čak i najpesimističniji epidemiolozi vjeruju da je najgore od pandemije iza nas, piše The Sunday Times.

https://www.jutarnji.hr/life/znanos...agonije-jako-blizu-covid-je-u-kavezu-15092634

Ja to znam, ali antivakseri uvek nadju razlog koji njima odgovara.

Antivakseri tvrde da je kraj na vidiku zato što su vladari iz senke uvideli da ne može da prođe njihova agenda.

Zaista mi je žao što slušam takve i slične stvari od bliske osobe :(
Koji antivakseri? Pročita li ovo? Na prilično jasan i zanimljiv način opisano kako neka epidemija utihne.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869218#p869218:6fkbihki je napisao(la):
Zuma » Uto Avg 03, 2021 7:28 pm[/url]":6fkbihki]
Korona NIJE bila bezopasnija od grip
Jeste.
Kakva će biti situacija sa Delta sojom ostaje da se vidi.
Koliko da se vidi?

Koliko jos vama panicarima i plasljivcima treba da prodje godina da biste utuvili i prihvatili da je Korona vec pokazala svoje "najgore" sto je imala i da ce cela stvar u buducnosti da slabi i bledi?

Cega se toliko use**vate? Ozbiljno pitam. @Sve vas koji zivite u strahu i zelite jos mera i cekate da prodje 35. talas 25. soja - cega se toliko plasite?

P.S.
I da, zasto je sad strahota i uzas kad imamo 300 zarazenih i 2 mrtva dnevno a nije bila tolika strahota i uzas kad smo imali 3000 zarazenih i 20 mrtvih? Zato sto "aaaa ali sta ako ode gore"? Pa jel otislo? Jel blizu rekorda iz novembra? Pa nije. I sta sad, treba svi da budemo na iglama do sledeceg leta? A kad dodje to leto da budemo na iglama za sledecu zimu, i tako i krug i krug i u krug sve do 2050?
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869242#p869242:35omxu6t je napisao(la):
Bender Rodriguez » Uto Avg 03, 2021 10:14 pm[/url]":35omxu6t]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869218#p869218:35omxu6t je napisao(la):
Zuma » Uto Avg 03, 2021 7:28 pm[/url]":35omxu6t]
Korona NIJE bila bezopasnija od grip
Jeste.
Dajder neki podatak, link, brojke...
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869170#p869170:gxhh79lr je napisao(la):
Пантограф » Uto Avg 03, 2021 3:43 pm[/url]":gxhh79lr]JOŠ MALO PA GOTOVO?
Virolozi koji su širili pesimizam sada tvrde da je kraj agonije jako blizu: ‘Covid je u kavezu!‘


Broj oboljelih od covida-19 u Velikoj Britanija pada, sve je bliži imunitetu zajednice, a čak i najpesimističniji epidemiolozi vjeruju da je najgore od pandemije iza nas, piše The Sunday Times.

https://www.jutarnji.hr/life/znanos...agonije-jako-blizu-covid-je-u-kavezu-15092634
Nije me mrzelo da procitam (iako nisam mnogo ocekivao od clickbait teksta), kad ono medjutim:
Britanski premijer Boris Johnson obećao je da se nedavna odluka o ukidanju lockdowna neće mijenjati, ali samo se ne pojavi neki novi soj koronavirusa. Savjetnik britanske vlade za zdravstvena pitanja profesor Chris Whitty priznao je da će znanstvenici možda ponovno morati oglasiti zvono za uzbunu ako se pojavi agresivniji soj virusa SARS-CoV-2.
Iliti, moze da bidne a ne mora da znaci.
Najcesce spominjana rec u celom tekstu je "mozda".
Jbt, ja bih mogao tako doktorat da napisem.
Glavna teza:
"Ako ne bude novih mutacija i prekomernog rasta obolelih, epidemija se blizi kraju."
Ocekujem nista manje od Noblesove nagrade.
 
Još jedna analiza viška smrti, ali vrlo detaljna i sa dodatnim podacima (i samo do kraja 2020. godine). Vrednost joj je što se ovde nalazi i Srbija, dakle ovde je višak smrti za nas izračunat po istoj metodologiji kao i za ostale, tako da možemo da se poredimo.

Exploring the Gap Between Excess Mortality and COVID-19 Deaths in 67 Countries
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2781968

Koliko vidimo ovde smo na visokom 9. mestu u rang listi onih sa najvećim ukupnim povećanjem umiranja podeljenim sa brojem stanovnika (kolona Excess deaths per 100.000). Rang lista viška smrti po broju stanovnika je za sada najobjektivniji pokazatelj kako je koja zemlja prošla, tj kakvi su STVARNO bili rezultati onoga što je ta zemlja preduzimala. Ovde više nisu bitna razmatranja šta je ko smatrao da se može ili ne može računati kao "smrt od kovida", niti to što su neke zemlje pokušale da sakriju da je deo smrti od kovida (a ne od nečeg drugog) da bi dotični režim bolje izgledao. Iako ovde ulaze i smrti koje nisu direktno od kovida (ali jesu neka posledica usvojenih mera i načina postupanja prema epidemiji) to je uglavnom bilo donekle proporcionalno broju zaraženih (znači da je manje bitno za međusobni poređenje zemalja), pa se tako i dalje pravi manja greška nego što bi se pravila kad bi se koristili ostali pokazatelji epidemije, a ne višak smrti. Ukratko, relativno veliki slobodu (sem u samom početku epidemije) smo veoma skupo platili bitno većim brojem umrlih nego što su imale ostale zemalje sa merama koje stvarno jesu bile sprovođene i kontrolisane (dakle ne samo formalno uvedene), koje nisu bile toliko liberalne kao mi. Sve dakle ima svoju cenu, a ovo je nama za sada vidljivi deo cene našeg pristupa, bar što se smrti tiče (i samo do kraja 2020.). Ostale posledice ćemo tek da vidimo.

Gap Between Excess Mortality and COVID-19 Deaths in 67 Countries - zld210140t1_1625700880.38904.png


Ovde vidimo da smo veoma daleko od linije uobičajenog odnosa viška smrti i zvaničnog broja žrtava kovida, što je u zemljama koje ne lažu sa podacima manje-više realna slika intenziteta epidemije kod njih, tj raširenosti virusa u tim zemljama.


Gap Between Excess Mortality and COVID-19 Deaths in 67 Countries - zld210140f1_1625700880.40011.png
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869242#p869242:2wjrukg1 je napisao(la):
Bender Rodriguez » 03 Aug 2021 09:14 pm[/url]":2wjrukg1]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869218#p869218:2wjrukg1 je napisao(la):
Zuma » Uto Avg 03, 2021 7:28 pm[/url]":2wjrukg1]
Korona NIJE bila bezopasnija od grip
Jeste.
Kakva će biti situacija sa Delta sojom ostaje da se vidi.
Koliko da se vidi?

Koliko jos vama panicarima i plasljivcima treba da prodje godina da biste utuvili i prihvatili da je Korona vec pokazala svoje "najgore" sto je imala i da ce cela stvar u buducnosti da slabi i bledi?

Cega se toliko use**vate? Ozbiljno pitam. @Sve vas koji zivite u strahu i zelite jos mera i cekate da prodje 35. talas 25. soja - cega se toliko plasite?

P.S.
I da, zasto je sad strahota i uzas kad imamo 300 zarazenih i 2 mrtva dnevno a nije bila tolika strahota i uzas kad smo imali 3000 zarazenih i 20 mrtvih? Zato sto "aaaa ali sta ako ode gore"? Pa jel otislo? Jel blizu rekorda iz novembra? Pa nije. I sta sad, treba svi da budemo na iglama do sledeceg leta? A kad dodje to leto da budemo na iglama za sledecu zimu, i tako i krug i krug i u krug sve do 2050?
Zašto u ozbiljnim razgovorima sukobe u stavovima uporno svodiš na nadevanje raznih imena i karakteristika: Tobože si ti hrabar, a ostali su kukavice!?? Da li je TO argument? Znaš li kako to izgleda ostalima na forumu?

Ali nebitno. Odgovor ne pitanje je da se niko ne plaši nego ljudi prošto ne žele da Srbija epidemiju prođe sa tako velikom cenom. Zašto da budemo baš TOLIKO različiti od drugih? Zašto smo pri vrhu na svim realnim listama umrlih? Da li oni znaju nešto što mi ne znamo? Ili oni više vole svoj narod nego mi naš? Ili smo MI zbog nečega pametniji od skoro svih njih (sem Kazahstana, Albanije, Rusije, Ekvadora i par sličnih)? Ili mi nemamo negativni prirodni priraštaj već decenijama, pa možemo ubrzanim tempom da šaljemo preostalo stanovništvo na groblje, a oni jadnici imaju, pa su se stisli i "uplašili"? Da li je to u pitanju? Ako nije, šta jeste?

Dakle, ne, sada još nije opasno i nema mnogo zaraženih, prosto zato što je leto i što smo nedavno izašli iz poslednjeg talasa pa smo u fazi minumuma jedne periodično ponavljajuće talasne pojave, ali bi na jesen i zimu moglo biti jer nismo dovoljno vakcinisani. Zato sada prosto pokušavamo da predvidimo šta se sve MOŽE desiti ako postane opasno, pa onda na vreme pripremimo strategije i postignemo bar neki konsenzus da bi u tom slučaju te mere trebalo poštovati (jer su za sada svi izgledi da će te vi takve mere i dalje minirati), a sada se vakcinisati kao pripremu. To se inače obično zove "planiranje", a ne strah i uplašenost. Ako ne bude potrebno, divno, baš to smo i želeli. Ako bude, imamo sve spremno.
 
Molim te nemoj samo ti da mi počinješ o načinu komunikacije, zato što sam se tvojih trikova nagledao za ovih par meseci samo tako. Ti si čovek koji zajaše ovu temu i drnda je do besvesti godinu dana a onda kada mu se ne sviđa šta druga strana kaže, ignoriše izveštaje sa Forbsove liste. Ignoriše podatke o bogaćenju milijardera od Korone. Ignoriše UNove podatke o broju ljudi koji su ostali bez posla ili dela prihoda zbog prenaduvane neopravdane histerije.

Nemoj da misliš da sam zaboravio na to. Srećom po tebe, ti imaš protekciju i kultić ovde, pa ti se može da nastavljaš tako da se praviš lud i teraš dvostruke standarde u nastupima. Ali eto, da ti odgovorim na pitanje - jedan od razloga što sa tobom komuniciram tako kako komuniciram, je i to što glumiš veličinu i mesiju ovde mesecima, a kada treba da se suočiš sa podacima i činjenicama koji ti pobijaju stavove i izjave da NIKO NIKADA nije bilo kako uticao da se Korona histerija prolongira da bi zaradio pare... onda samo nestaješ sa teme i vadiš se na foru ''neću da pričam sa vama zlim čikama što me dirate''.

To je samo za početak. Da ne pričam o etiketama koje ti i pripadnici tvoje crkve lupate ovde drugima, čak i onima koji se nisu svađali sa vama. Do te mere da si isprao mozak i drugim članovima da sve ljude na svetu dele na 1) one koji se use**vaju od Korone i 2) antivaksere i teoretičare zavere. Da ne pričam s koliko snishodljivosti se ti obraćaš neistomišljenicima ovde, kloparajući u beskraj (izabrao sam lake reči ovde, inače da sam iskren, bilo bi opisano znatno drugačije) sto puta prežvakane priče. Pokušavajući da zvučiš kao neki akademik i šef katedre nekog fakulteta, i propovedajući o ''stvarima koje mi obični smrtnici ne možemo da shvatimo''. Jer bože moj, za čitanje grafika, igranje u Excelu, posećivanje sajtova i računanje medijane su potrebne decenije obrazovanja, pun zid sertifikata i inteligencija jednog u 10 milijardi. A kad te pitam čime se baviš u životu, i kad te pitam na osnovu čega ti misliš da s' ti jedini koji je učio statistiku, ili da si jedini koji je kredibilan da kaže nešto o Koroni... opet potežeš staru kartu ''neću da pričam s vama zlim čikama što me dirate''.

Eto, to su samo neki od razloga što komuniciram i postavljam se tako prema tebi. Zato što se i ti postavljaš tako prema drugima, samo upakovano i zakamuflirano u SJ i PC oblande. Zato što misliš da si bog zna kakva faca, a zapravo... Staću opet ovde, iz istih razloga. Inače bih ti rado rekao šta mislim.

Elem,
U kojim smo mi to listama ''pri vrhu'', Excela ti? Navedi mi izvore i linkove - BEZ KLOPARANJA U BESKRAJ - po kojima je Srbija kobajagi u svetskom vrhu po broju pomrlih od Kovida. Osvrnuću se otom potom i na tvoje lične projekcije i tvrdnje, one što kažu da Država Srbija prikriva nekoliko hiljada uzroka smrti i falsifikuje toliki broj dokumenata, a koje uopšte ne zvuče kao teorija zavere kojih se ti - kobajagi - toliko gnušaš. Elem, osvrnuću se i na to, ali posle. Kad mi stomak bude prazan. A sada me zanimaju zvanične liste i rangiranja, da vidim po kojim je to parametrima Srbija ''pri vrhu listi''.

Posle te možda priupitam opet, po 20. put, isto što bih pitao i Šeklera. No, sve u svoje vreme. Idemo korak po korak.

Kažeš treba da čekamo još i vidimo šta će biti. Ja sam te pitao jasno i glasno - dokle? Koliko ciklusa treba tebi i ostalim paničarima da prođe, da biste doneli neki zaključak o ovom soju? Dakle, jel da prođu jedno leto i jedna zima pod Indijskim sojem? Dva leta i dve zime? Pet leta? Koliko? Hoću broj. Ionako se sav redovno busaš kako si kombinacija mesije i Ajnštajna i kako živiš za statistiku i brojke. Super. Izvoli onda, daj broj. Koliko ciklusa Indijskog soja treba da se izvrti da bi ti i ostatak Crkve paničara rekli ''e ok, sad znamo ponašanje Indijskog soja u svim okolnostima, sad možemo da predahnemo i predvidimo tokove''?
 
A ne, na ovakav način nećemo razgovarati ni o čemu. Nismo ni ranije, niti ćemo ubuduće. To možeš da misliš da je u pitanju izvlačenje, a bez upuštanja u dugačku i jalovu diskusiju, što sam odavno rekao da više neću da radim sa bilo kim ko ima ovakav odnos prema sagovorniku, očigledno da ne mogu da te ubedim da nije tako. Zbog toga mora biti dovoljno samo reći, a drugi neka na osnovu dosašnjeg pisanja svakog od nas procene koliko u tome ima istine: Meni zaista nije problem da razgovaram o bilo čemu i da bar pokušam i dodatno opravdati svaki svoj stav (pošto su oni obično argumentovani od početka), međutim ne bez elementarnog poštovanja sagovornika i ne ako je nešto veoma mnogo puta do sada objašnjeno, pošto bi to bilo spamovanje i nerviranje svih ostalih koji su isto to videli već X puta do sada, i odavno razumeli. Svaki medij ima svoja pravila, pa i ovaj. Ima ih čak i običan svakodnevni razgovor na ulici, pa da ne spominjem ko bi trpeo ovakav odnos van Interneta. Ako je nešto pogrešno, povremeno zbog novih članova foruma opet mora da se kaže da je tako, ali svako dalje upuštanje u dijalog tamo gde nema ni osnovnih preduslova za njega je traćenje vremena svih koji bi to morali da čitaju.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869284#p869284:357z7mxh je napisao(la):
Zuma » Sre Avg 04, 2021 4:33 am[/url]":357z7mxh]To možeš da misliš da je u pitanju izvlačenje
Upravo to je.
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869218#p869218:3v2w8pmr je napisao(la):
Zuma » 03 Aug 2021 06:28 pm[/url]":3v2w8pmr]
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869203#p869203:3v2w8pmr je napisao(la):
Bender Rodriguez » 03 Aug 2021 05:05 pm[/url]":3v2w8pmr]
Nego, a dokle ti i tvoja crkva mislite da se zivi ovako, koliko jos godina treba da prodje pre nego sto vi usvojite da je Korona za populacije bezopasnija od gripa i da histerisanje oko nje ne donosi nista dobro a visestruku stetu

Koliko puta treba da se podigne frka i da se nista ne desi da bi smo se svi slozili da od toga nema nista? Koliko talasa, koliko sojeva... ?
Korona NIJE bila bezopasnija od gripa, i tu nema šta da se debatuje i usvaja jer je emirijskim podacima iz bolnica dokazano ogroman broj puta.

Kakva će biti situacija sa Delta sojom ostaje da se vidi. Možda je ovaj soj postao blaži (mada više nailazim na tvrdnje da je ili isti ili gori), ali se tu sada pojavio ogroman problem sa procenama jer je postalo veoma teško odvojiti efekte delimične vakcinacije u raznim zemljama od efekata zbog karakteristika samog soja. Pa su sada i podaci o proširenosti virusa u nekoj državi postali neinformativni budući da ne znamo koji je od više mogućih faktora uticao da oni budu baš takvi. Drugim rečima, iskustvo jedne zemlje više nije prenosivo na drugu jer ne znamo šta je sve formiralo takav rezultat kod njih, a pogotovo šta bi bilo kod nas.

Daily coronavirus infections are suddenly dropping in the UK, but not all is as it seems
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-31/ ... /100336338

Something strange is happening in Britain. Covid cases are plummeting instead of soaring.
https://archive.ph/T7zk2

Ja se slazem ovde sa Zumom.
Ono zasto ja mislim da je ogroman problem da se zapravo napravi dobra procena jeste sto ima previse okolnosti koje mogu da uticu na sve i svasta. Verovatno necemo moci ni da saznamo sta je stvarno tacno vec samo da nagadjamo na osnovu nepotpunih podataka.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... ome-people
Cak i ovde kazu "likely more severe" ali ne kazu DEFINITIVNO more severe. Znaci da je zapravo jako tesko imati 100% pouzdanu potvrdu.

Ovo je zanimljiv deo
“Data from the CDC shows that over 99 percent of people who are in the hospital or who have died from COVID in the last several months have been unvaccinated,” Jones-Lopez said."
 
[url=http://beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?p=869230#p869230:2dquwkhd je napisao(la):
molder » Uto Avg 03, 2021 8:28 pm[/url]":2dquwkhd]Batajnica se polako puni, za par dana vise je bilo prijema nego ceo prosli mesec. Na kraju krajeva treba pratiti hospitalizovane, to bas i ne moze da se steluje kao ostale cifre. Mislim da treba izvuci broj vakconisanih fajzerom i ruskom plus broj obolelih najkasnije od marta do danas to je ta neka cifra ljiudi sa opipljivim imunitetom. Sve ostalo je debela zabluda. Eto vec su poceli slucajevi onih koji su prelezali u decembru koronu da se opet zarazavaju.
Otkud sad to da se ponovo zaražavaju ? Zar ne traje imunitet večno ?

Island

“In Iceland, 85.3% of people over 16 years old are now fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and 4.9% are partially vaccinated. It should therefore not come as a surprise that among new domestic cases, most are vaccinated. Since 9 July, 77% of domestic infections were among vaccinated individuals,” Ásthildur Knútsdóttir, Director General of the Ministry of Health in Iceland told Reuters via email.

https://www.icelandreview.com/society/c ... miologist/

Izgleda da krdo ne radi

COVID-19 in Iceland: Vaccination Has Not Led to Herd Immunity, Says Chief Epidemiologist

While data shows vaccination is reducing the rate of serious illness due to COVID-19 in Iceland, the country’s Chief Epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason says it has not led to the herd immunity that experts hoped for. In the past two to three weeks, the Delta variant has outstripped all others in Iceland and it has become clear that vaccinated people can easily contract it as well as spread it to others, Þórólfur stated in a briefing this morning.

The current social restrictions will remain in place until August 13. The Chief Epidemiologist says the government must make the final call on next steps in response to the current wave of infection. Health authorities have sent a formal memorandum to the government expressing concern about the heavy strain on the healthcare system cause by the current record rate of infection.

On the panel: Director of Civil Protection Víðir Reynisson and Chief Epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason.

Yesterday’s numbers have been updated on covid.is. Iceland reported 108 domestic cases (38 in quarantine) and 1 at the border. Total active cases are at a record 1,304. 16 are in hospital.

The briefing has begun. Víðir begins by saying that the long weekend has passed without any large violations of regulations but it will only come to light in a week or two whether the gatherings last weekend have led to infections.

Þórólfur takes over. He reviews the reason restrictions were lifted last June: at the time infection rates were very low, a majority of the nation was vaccinated and there were regulations at the border ensuring a minimum of infections would cross the border. Vaccination rates are high in most groups, though only 10% of those 12-16 have been vaccinated.

What has happened in the past two to three weeks is that the Delta variant has taken over all other variants in Iceland. And it has come to light that vaccinated individuals can contract it relatively easily and spread infection. Sequencing has shown us that the origin of most domestic infections can be traced to group events such as clubbing in downtown Reykjavík or group trips abroad. We’ll have to wait and see whether the current restrictions will suffice in curbing this current wave.

There are however indications that vaccination is preventing serious illness. Around 24 have had to be hospitalised in this wave, just over 1%. In previous waves, that figure was 4-5%. However, 2.4% of unvaccinated people that contract COVID-19 now are hospitalised.

Authorities have decided to offer those who received the Janssen vaccine a booster shot of Pfizer. There are plans to offer 12- to 15-year-olds vaccination in the near future as well. There are still some 30,000 unvaccinated people among older groups and they are more at risk. That could cause strain on the healthcare system. We must also consider that there is additional strain on other patients when there are lots of COVID cases, says Þórólfur.

Þórólfur says we must remember that the COVID-19 pandemic is not close to being over and will not be over until it’s over everywhere. We must be ready to face new challenges that come up in the process. We know what works to curb infection. We can fight COVID-19 if we stand together and reach a consensus on what needs to be done.

The panel opens for questions. “What needs to happen for you to tighten restrictions, Þórólfur? You don’t sound very positive at the moment.” Þórólfur says he has not decided on measures beyond August 13. He is in discussions with the Health Minister, and it is the government that must decide whether it is necessary to impose tighter restrictions. Þórólfur adds that at this time he will likely make recommendations in a different format than the memorandums he has previously sent to the Health Minister.

“Can you give us information about how many people were vaccinated among those who have been hospitalised in this wave?” Þórólfur says around half of those hospitalised have been vaccinated. The two that have been placed in the ICU are unvaccinated. It’s not possible to draw broad conclusions from this data but vaccination appears to reduce serious illness generally.

“What is the reason that you are considering vaccinating children at this time?” Þórólfur says that he has discussed it for some time and children in at-risk groups have already been vaccinated. There is also evidence that the Delta variant causes more serious illness among them.

“Is there a possibility that children that contract the Delta variant will need hospitalisation?” Þórólfur says that children generally have milder symptoms and none in Iceland have been hospitalised in this wave. However, there is data from abroad of children needing to be hospitalised due to COVID-19.

“Do you not want to urge the government to strengthen the healthcare system?” Þórólfur says of course, and the Director of Health has discussed that often at these briefings but it doesn’t happen overnight. What we can do in the short term is to curb infection rates, which will reduce strain on the healthcare system. Þórólfur says: We must keep in mind that people can develop long-term symptoms despite not needing hospitalisation from COVID-19 infection. That’s something that we don’t have long-term data for yet but will come to light.

Þórólfur says health officials have sent a formal memorandum to the government expressing concerns regarding strain on the healthcare system and the National University Hospital. Þórólfur expresses disappointment in the discourse regarding the National University Hospital, he feels the media has been dismissing healthcare workers’ concerns. Healthcare workers are those best positioned to evaluate the hospital’s strain and capacity, he says.

Þórólfur: our main project now is this wave that we have to tackle. Regarding the borders, we must think long-term about how we can minimise infections crossing the border. Then we must consider how we want things to be domestically and what people’s tolerance is for restrictions. But it’s a fact that the more this wave of infection spreads the harder it will be to contain.

Víðir takes over to close the briefing. We know what we have to do: prevent infections, and protect the borders so that we can live as freely as possible within Iceland. We can see that many people are out of patience toward restrictions but unfortunately, this is not over. We don’t have to agree on everything but our message must be clear. It is the virus that is the enemy. We must be good to each other and be patient, try to understand where others are coming from, Víðir says. The briefing has ended.




Negde u Americi


https://nova.rs/svet/gradic-menja-sve-s ... j-ih-gazi/
 
Najviše ovo zabrinjava

Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... id-19.html
 
Lek o kome se duže vreme priča i koji je bačen sa strane zbog skupih vakcina . Izrael posle divljanja broja zaraženih (ponedaljak skoro 4000) i sve većeg opterećenja bolnica dodatno je spustio procenta za Pfizer koji je sada oko 39%. Sa 39% i virusnim load-om istim kao i kod nevakcinisanih pitanja je koja je svrha skupih eksperimentalnih vakcina .


https://m.jpost.com/health-science/isra ... day-675612

Israeli scientist says COVID-19 could be treated for under $1/day

Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease’s duration and infectiousness • FDA and WHO caution against its use

Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people who contract coronavirus for less than a $1 a day, according to recent research by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer.
Prof. Eli Schwartz, founder of the Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Disease at Sheba, conducted a randomized, controlled, double-blinded trial from May 15, 2020, through the end of January 2021 to evaluate the effectiveness of ivermectin in reducing viral shedding among nonhospitalized patients with mild to moderate COVID-19.

Ivermectin has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration since 1987. The drug’s discoverers were awarded the 2015 Nobel Prize in medicine for its treatment of onchocerciasis, a disease caused by infection with a parasitic roundworm.
Over the years, it has been used for other indications, including scabies and head lice. Moreover, in the last decade, several clinical studies have started to show its antiviral activity against viruses ranging from HIV and the flu to Zika and West Nile.
The drug is also extremely economical. A study published in the peer-reviewed American Journal of Therapeutics showed that the cost of ivermectin for other treatments in Bangladesh is around $0.60 to $1.80 for a five-day course. It costs up to $10 a day in Israel, Schwartz said.
In Schwartz’s study, some 89 eligible volunteers over the age of 18 who were diagnosed with coronavirus and staying in state-run COVID-19 hotels were divided into two groups: 50% received ivermectin, and 50% received a placebo, according to their weight. They were given the pills for three days in a row, an hour before a meal.


Jerusalem Post Health & Science
Israeli scientist says COVID-19 could be treated for under $1/day
By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN AUGUST 2, 2021 21:01
Ivermectin (photo credit: REUTERS)
Ivermectin
(photo credit: REUTERS)
Double-blind study shows ivermectin reduces disease’s duration and infectiousness • FDA and WHO caution against its use
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Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people who contract coronavirus for less than a $1 a day, according to recent research by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer.
Prof. Eli Schwartz, founder of the Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Disease at Sheba, conducted a randomized, controlled, double-blinded trial from May 15, 2020, through the end of January 2021 to evaluate the effectiveness of ivermectin in reducing viral shedding among nonhospitalized patients with mild to moderate COVID-19.
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Ivermectin has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration since 1987. The drug’s discoverers were awarded the 2015 Nobel Prize in medicine for its treatment of onchocerciasis, a disease caused by infection with a parasitic roundworm.
Over the years, it has been used for other indications, including scabies and head lice. Moreover, in the last decade, several clinical studies have started to show its antiviral activity against viruses ranging from HIV and the flu to Zika and West Nile.

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The drug is also extremely economical. A study published in the peer-reviewed American Journal of Therapeutics showed that the cost of ivermectin for other treatments in Bangladesh is around $0.60 to $1.80 for a five-day course. It costs up to $10 a day in Israel, Schwartz said.
In Schwartz’s study, some 89 eligible volunteers over the age of 18 who were diagnosed with coronavirus and staying in state-run COVID-19 hotels were divided into two groups: 50% received ivermectin, and 50% received a placebo, according to their weight. They were given the pills for three days in a row, an hour before a meal.
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The volunteers were tested using a standard nasopharyngeal swab PCR test with the goal of evaluating whether there was a reduction in viral load by the sixth day – the third day after termination of the treatment. They were swabbed every two days.
Nearly 72% of volunteers treated with ivermectin tested negative for the virus by day six. In contrast, only 50% of those who received the placebo tested negative.
IN ADDITION, the study looked at culture viability, meaning how infectious the patients were, and found that only 13% of ivermectin patients were infectious after six days, compared with 50% of the placebo group – almost four times as many.
“Our study shows first and foremost that ivermectin has antiviral activity,” Schwartz said. “It also shows that there is almost a 100% chance that a person will be noninfectious in four to six days, which could lead to shortening isolation time for these people. This could have a huge economic and social impact.”
The study appeared on the MedRxiv health-research sharing site. It has not yet been peer reviewed.
Schwartz said other similar studies – though not all of them conducted to the same double-blind and placebo standards as his – also showed a favorable impact of ivermectin treatment.
His study did not prove ivermectin was effective as a prophylactic, meaning that it could prevent disease, he cautioned, nor did it show that it reduces the chances of hospitalization. However, other studies have shown such evidence, he added.
For example, the study published earlier this year in the American Journal of Therapeutics highlighted that “a review by the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance summarized findings from 27 studies on the effects of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 infection, concluding that ivermectin ‘demonstrates a strong signal of therapeutic efficacy’ against COVID-19.”
“Another recent review found that ivermectin reduced deaths by 75%,” the report said.
BUT IVERMECTIN is not without controversy, and hence, despite the high levels of coronavirus worldwide, neither the FDA nor the World Health Organization have been willing to approve it for use in the fight against the virus.
Prof. Ya’acov Nahmias, a Hebrew University of Jerusalem researcher, has questioned the safety of the drug.
“Ivermectin is a chemical therapeutic agent, and it has significant risks associated with it,” he said in a previous interview. “We should be very cautious about using this type of medication to treat a viral disease that the vast majority of the public is going to recover from even without this treatment.”
During Schwartz’s study, there was not any signal of significant side effects among ivermectin users.
Only five patients were referred to hospitals, with four of them being in the placebo arm. One ivermectin patient went to the hospital complaining of shortness of breath on the day of recruitment. He continued with the ivermectin treatment and was sent back to the hotel a day later in good condition.
The FDA said on its website it “received multiple reports of patients who have required medical support and been hospitalized after self-medicating with ivermectin.”
The “FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans,” it said. “Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an antiviral (a drug for treating viruses). Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.”
The World Health Organization has also recommended against using the drug except in clinical trials.
IN CONTRAST, Schwartz said he was very disappointed that the WHO did not support any trial to determine whether the drug could be viable.
Last month, Oxford University announced a large trial on ivermectin effectiveness.
Schwartz said he became interested in exploring ivermectin about a year ago, “when everyone was looking for a new drug” to treat COVID-19, and a lot of effort was being put into evaluating hydroxychloroquine, so he decided to join the effort.
“Since ivermectin was on my shelf, since we are using it for tropical diseases, and there were hints it might work, I decided to go for it,” he said.
Researchers in other places worldwide began looking into the drug at around the same time. But when they started to see positive results, no one wanted to publish them, Schwartz said.
“There is a lot of opposition,” he said. “We tried to publish it, and it was kicked away by three journals. No one even wanted to hear about it. You have to ask how come when the world is suffering.”
“This drug will not bring any big economic profits,” and so Big Pharma doesn’t want to deal with it, he said.
SOME OF the loudest opposition to ivermectin has come from Merck Co., which manufactured the drug in the 1980s. In a public statement about ivermectin on its website in February, it said: “Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to date, our analysis has identified no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies; no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and a concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.”
But Merck has not launched any studies of its own on ivermectin.
“You would think Merck would be happy to hear that ivermectin might be helpful to corona patients and try to study it, but they are most loudly declaring the drug should not be used,” Schwartz said. “A billion people took it. They gave it to them. It’s a real shame.”
And not moving forward with ivermectin could potentially extend the time it takes for the world to be able to live alongside the virus, he said.
“Developing new medications can take years; therefore, identifying existing drugs that can be re-purposed against COVID-19 [and] that already have an established safety profile through decades of use could play a critical role in suppressing or even ending the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic,” wrote the researchers in the American Journal of Therapeutics. “Using re-purposed medications may be especially important because it could take months, possibly years, for much of the world’s population to get vaccinated, particularly among low- to middle-income populations.”
 
Da li ima nekakav statisticki podatak, izvestaji.... o ponovnom zarazavanju?
Znaci govorim o situaciji da se ponovo zaraze nakon godinu dana, nekog duzeg perioda? Da li je ista blaze kod onih koji au imali antitela?
Meni nije jasno, ko se razboleo sigirno je bolje organizam upamtio nego posle vakcine, pa da li je blaze?
Npr. Ja sam prelezala u novembru prosle g. A vakcinisala se u julu sad ( imala sam antitela ali ih nisam merila pre vakcinacije). Da li pomaze pa svaki sl put zaraza bude blaža? Ima li iko ikakve podatke?
 
Ne postoje zvanični podaci, kao što i ne znamo da li je to Korona ili neki virus koji kruži već mesecima. Evo dobar drug je juče išao sa ženom na proveru pluća

Mi u ambulanti, dovezao **** na kontrolu pluca, jer kaslje. Trijaza kaze "ozbiljniji pacijenti prvo", ali drzava kaze, DANAS JE FOKUS NA DETEKCIJI NOVIH SLUCAJEVA
I sad ovi sto rade prvi put, blejaci, kojima nije nista, idu na sve zivo
A upale pluca cekaju u redu
 
Vrh