Železnička Stanica Beograd Centar, Prokop - [ Železnica ]

[2012]

@witeku,Welcome! Yes that is good description of current status ,We all do hope that Russian loan will be available soon as possible,probably with the begin of March ,otherwise they will possibly try to find some reason,such as storm in Australia or else.. :kafa:

 

[hazard]

I would like to get the things with Prokop station straight. Am I correct?
In the 1990s and 2000s there was a proposal to construct the station in public-private partnership (PPP), but the contractor had bigger and bigger demands. The agreement was broken and ZS signed an agreement with a second company - Energoprojekt. But the country governement didn't agree with handing over the grounds over the Prokop station to private investor. Finally it was agreed that the state will pay Energoprojekt for completion of works at the station and Beograd city will build the connection roads (and the business and trade complex will be another stage). And now it turns out that the state doesn't have enough funds for finishing the works at the station and that is why a Russian loan is taken under consideration? Did I get it correctly?

Well this is what is written in the Serbian wikipedia article about it more or less, so let's assume it's true

I don't know about 1990s. There were plans then for lots of things then, but few things got done, obviously. There was apparently a contract with Energoprojekt (but not PPP-type, just a contract to build the station) from 1996.

The agreement about PPP which you refer was from 2005 with Hungarian company Trigranit. That is, Trigranit won the tender called by ZS, which called for station construction by the winner of the tender, who would in return get the right to build the shopping mall/office space on top, but in the end to contract was not signed due to those extra&unreasonable demands, whatever they were. Then in 2008 the contract for the same thing was signed with Energoprojekt, and you are right the government did not approve it, because there was no legal basis (apparently) to make Energoprojekt the owner of the station roof and everything that would be built on top; they could only lease it, not own it. Anyways that is the official reason. I think there was lots of political lobbying behind the scenes for one reason or another. You are right about the new agreement, with costs shared between the national government and the city government.

Now, if you ask me (and a lot of other people), the problem with Prokop since 2000 is not really about lack of funds, but about something else. I mean, the estimate for making Prokop fully functional is 80 million euros. Some other things need to be finished in the Belgrade railway junction, but I think the total cost for making it fully functional is less than 200 million euros. That is the money Belgrade will spend on the Ada bridge (not counting interest on the loans)...and the existing parts of the junction already cost more than 2 billion dollars.

The thing is, once Prokop is finished, the old railway station can be put out of use - and not just the station itself, but more importantly all the railway infrastructure around it which occupies so much prime real estate along the Sava river. This in fact, is the main point of Prokop - to free up all this space basically in the middle of the city for development. But the question is - who profits from selling this land once it is cleared? ZS? The national government? The city government? I believe there are people in each of those three who do not see much interest in continuing with Prokop until they figure out who will get the money. My other, more conspirational theory, is that in the 2000s some tycoons also lobbied to delay the project, because it would impact the price of real estate in the city (in which they were heavily invested in). For example, the two biggest Serbian tycoons together bought the Belgrade Port (Luka Beograd), with plans to relocate it (it too is in a basically silly location too close to the city centre) downstream and then redevelop the area as a business/residential complex. For them, a freed up large area around the railway station would be unwelcome competition.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

@Wile E. Coyote
Hvala

 

[razgradjevinar]

@hazard

never thought about this issues (prokop, port, main station..) connected as you described it.. but yes, there no other logical explanation how come that eather city or state cant find money for prokop

 

[witeku]

wow... thanks for the explanation. I think you have responded to all my issues (at least for now!)
Is the mayor from the same party as the government? this should make decisions easier... And then everyone could get an applause for finishing the long delayed works

One more (small) question - are the ticket barriers at Vukov spomenik still located on the platform level, near the escalator landing?

 

[JohnnyLee]

for Vukov spoemnik - yes
for mayor - yes, but, as far as i can see, they don't quite see eye to eye when it's about something like Prokop, or something else in Belgrade, since there are various interests on republic level, that don't quite get along with local interests

 

[2012]

Beobuild goes international..! čuvaj se skyscrapu... :shok:

 

[ACR]

Prošlo je neopaženo...izgleda da nam je svima već muka

Ćirović: Pregovori o ruskom kreditu sredinom godine

BEOGRAD – Pregovori o delu ruskog kredita od 800 miliona dolara za projekte infrastrukture u Srbiji, nastaviće se sredinom godine, rekao je pomoćnik ministra finansija Zoran Ćirović.

„Srbija kasni u izradu projektno-predračunske dokumentacije i dogovoreno je da ona najkasnije bude završena do kraja prvog polugodišta”, izjavio je agenciji Beta Ćirović koji predvodi srpsku delegaciju u pregovarima o ruskom kreditu.

http://www.politika.rs/vesti/najnovije-vesti/Cirovic-Pregovori-o-ruskom-kreditu-sredinom-godine.html

Vest inače ne govori ništa dobro za stanicu Prokop, od kredita ni u najoptimističnijem scenariju nema ništa ove godine, a čak i tada prvo će se graditi stanica u Zemunu i drugi kolosek pruge BG-PA.

 

[RockerSVK]

Неспособњаковићи нису у стању ни да на време припреме све папире

 

[vucko]

Ako vam je promakao post nbumbica iscitajte ga odje,nisu vazni projekti ni ich za dobijanje kredita.To je prica za narod

http://www.beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?id=225&p=13

 

[milanski]

U Varsavi su poceli remont podzemnih perona glavne zeljeznicke stanice. Prvi od 1975 g kada je stanica pustena u promet. Remont se radi po kolosjecima, a ne pronima, tako da su za sada gotova dva perona do polovine sirine sa svake strane kolosjeka. Ipak ima tu i problema:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Boi7cGiBU&feature=player_embedded#t=300s

 

[dedinje]

Ako dalji radovi na Prokopu ostaju za iduću godinu to je zato što je on eć sada u priličnoj meri u funkcionalnom stanju i može se koristiti za ulazak i izlazak putnika na nekim kolosecima. S druge strane drugi kolosek prema Pančevu je nasušna potreba. Zbog pančevačke industrije i mnogo putnika na jednom koloseku bi došlo do kolizije teretnog i putničkog saobraćaja.

 

[vucko]

bila je neka gadna pljacka juce i naravno lopovi dovezose kola u prokop na mestu gde bi trebao biti kolosek i zapalise ih

 

[boca-ica]

Super mesto za gubljenje traga nakon jučerašnje pljačke novca , mora da su pratili pisanje Beobuilda ,
pare koje su ,, ulazile,, u Prokop niko nije mogao ikada da im uđe u trag , kako tek pronači tricavih 800 hiljada :laugh: :lool: :laugh:

 

[direktor]

I uskocili u prvi bgvoz i isparili u nepoznatom pravcu :kafa:

 

[vucko]

Super mesto za gubljenje traga nakon jučerašnje pljačke novca , mora da su pratili pisanje Beobuilda ,
pare koje su ,, ulazile,, u Prokop niko nije mogao ikada da im uđe u trag , kako tek pronači tricavih 800 hiljada :laugh: :lool: :laugh:

Upravo!Ko sto zidar rece crna rupa koja guta pare :lol:

 

[witeku]

Dobro veče!

Hi again! I was writing to you at the beginning of February. Thanks for the previous answers.

21) Did sth new happen since then? Any new concepts for Prokop?
22) Did I understand correctly that final decisions about the Russian loan will be made in the mid of the year? What exactly is now negotiated?
23) Is it known what projects will be financed from the Russian loan?

And two more questions concerning the operation:
24) With BG:Voz running, what is the sense of further Beovoz operation?
25) How many Beovoz lines are the exactly? I came across different figures - 4, 5 or 6...

Hvala!

 

[Marcus Lupus]

21) Нет.
22) Negotiations are going to be around the midle of the year.
23) Again - no. But there are some presupositions. Probably train station in Zemun (Belgrade) and the second line of the railway BG-Pančevo should be built.

24, 25) No idea.

 

[Železničar]

22 and 23)
Final decisions about Russian loan will be made when we finish project intended for loan. That is railway line Valjevo - Loznica, modernization of railway line Belgrade - Bar and railway in Belgrade such us Prokop, Zemun etc.

 

[vucko]

Evo novog teksta u vezi kredita uopste ne pominju projekte kao sto smo znali

http://www.b92.net/biz/vesti/srbija.php?yyyy=2011&mm=03&dd=18&nav_id=500210

Use google translate to read this new arcticle that is about the loan.

About the credit,it's not about the projects,it's about the interest rates and how much work will be done by russian and by serbian companies.The projects are not finished,but they are just an excuse.

Works will probably start in the beginning of 2012. Before that is being overly optimistic.

 

[witeku]

U Varsavi su poceli remont podzemnih perona glavne zeljeznicke stanice. Prvi od 1975 g kada je stanica pustena u promet. Remont se radi po kolosjecima, a ne pronima, tako da su za sada gotova dva perona do polovine sirine sa svake strane kolosjeka. Ipak ima tu i problema:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Boi7cGiBU&feature=player_embedded#t=300s

Some photos:

 

[jlaki]

Priprost aluminijumsko-stakleni mish-mash impresivnih dimenzija.

Šta god gradili na ploči prokopa, izgledaće slično Varšavskoj stanici. Znači, nastavljamo da đubrimo Beograd, ali to je već opšteprihvaćeno kao u redu činjenica.

Prokop treba služiti kao jedan od terminala za gradsku/prigradsku železnicu i unutrašnji saobraćaj, a centralna železnička za međunarodne vozove i nadam se da će tako biti.

 

[stf]

За међународне возове је потребна проточна станица, што главна није, али Прокоп јесте.

 

[vucko]

Da,glavna je slepo crevo koje usporava saobracaj,znate i sami kako je to sa medjunarodnim vozovima.

 

[Železničar]

Evo novog teksta u vezi kredita uopste ne pominju projekte kao sto smo znali

http://www.b92.net/biz/vesti/srbija.php?yyyy=2011&mm=03&dd=18&nav_id=500210

Use google translate to read this new arcticle that is about the loan.

About the credit,it's not about the projects,it's about the interest rates and how much work will be done by russian and by serbian companies.The projects are not finished,but they are just an excuse.

Works will probably start in the beginning of 2012. Before that is being overly optimistic.

You are wrong! Do you know why we can`t implement approved loans for many projects? We can not because we don`t have finished projects for that approved loans! No one will give you loan if you don`t have finished project for that with the total costs. Because of that reason, Russain loan is not yet approved. And many others loans from EIB, EBRD, etc.